Friday, 7 September 2007

Re: Do Woman Have The Right To Preach?

This is a short teaching response to the question; Do women have the right to preach?

Firstly, let me say that i believe this question in of itself is not the right question to be asked, nor is it the main area dealt with in this video. The question really should be; Is it Gods will for women to teach men and hold positions of authority over them?

Judge for yourself. God bless.

Part 1

Part 2


Anonymous said...

I know that you are right. I am a woman and my mother is a pastor. I don't believe that she is a pastor, because she is ordained by an organization, but her pastor who was a man passed away and left no man to inherit the leadership of the flock. So what do you do when your father left no sons only daughters for an inheritance to make sure that the doors of the church is open in the land? Numbers 27: 1-8 I believe many honest churches are in that situation. ( I hope that I am not bringing this text out of context, but I see a simular situation)

Anonymous said...

According to the scriptures God has not and does not call women to pastor,preach or teach and that is clear in the scripture. But it is because today people who say that they are in Christ chose to ignore this and heap unto themselves teachers having itching ears, because it is easy to justify women in the ministry without any men around. But if we did like the scriptures point out we should be people given to much prayer so that God can send the one that He has called to shepard that flock! Thank you for this blog!

Anonymous said...

The Bible clearly states that a woman is not to usurp (or to have) authority over a man. I am a woman of God and it is difficult for me to hear of other women who state that they are "called" by God to be a pastor. This is a lie straight from the evil one. In a society that teaches women's rights, women liberation, we as a society have gotten so far away from the Truth of God's Word that our society has become sick and infested. It is so important that we as true Christians stick with the Word of God. I believe that the reason why we now hear of various ministries and so-called ministers falling is because it was never intended by God for a woman to be in a leadership position of a pastor over a man. It is time for the church to wake up from its deep sleep and really study the Word of God. Regardless of whether one likes it or not, we as women are to be submissive to our husbands and to live a peaceful and quiet life. Even if some women don't like this portion of scripture, it still does not change God's Word. Thank you for your honesty and faithfulness in ministry. We need more truthful people as yourself and this ministry. God bless.

soma(theslave) said...

I praise God for the young lady that posted concerning women as pastors. I pray that more women allow God to show them the role that He has ordained for them. You really don't know how much of a blessing and how edifying it was to read a post by a woman that actually agrees with Scripture. People usually say something like, "Don't quench the Spirit" which is by far an absurdity. Our American society continues to push women to be independent, self-willed and supportive, and basically everything that is against the Word of God and it has been greatly affecting the body of Christ. The spirit of Ahab is also great among us men as they don't assume their roles as the head, and continue to forsake being the godly men He has called us to be. Father, help us. Amen.

David said...

Is anyone familiar with Judges 4 4?
Who was Deboarah? Who did she judge? Did this include men? Was she considered a prophet? I only bring this up because it appears she did have power over men and was a prophet. I was led to the Lord by a woman and taught by a female Sunday school teacher. If there are no men capable of doing the work of the Lord, then who? However! 1 Corinthians 11.3, 10.33 and 12.18. I guess the best way to paraphrase my thought is if a part of the body dies God will replace it. He has placed the parts where he wants them and if we attempt to move the nose to where the eye should be imagine how that would look. Every part has it's place and together it accomplishes it's task.

Anonymous said...

I just wanted clarity on a few things from you, not Ringo, since you seem to be able to listen and rebuttal back in accordance to the word. By the way, I only got through two videos so I will only address those. I agree scripturally with your stance on the dress thing, but I do agree that if a man is lusting it is deep rooted in a lust issue and if a women is dressing immodest then that too is deep rooted in a lust issue.

There are a few things you stated that doesn't quite sit well, one (I paraphrase) you implied that NOT ALL scripture is profitable as doctrine for the Church like Proverbs, but the new testament is (at least Paul's, Peter's and John's writings). Of course the bible states, 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. Can any one scripture truly fit into each of these categories? No, as you stated for proverbs, it's inspired by God, but not doctrine. So what makes you believe that ALL their writings are inspired, and as doctrine? The versus that you two were dealing fall into the categories of inspired, correction, and rebuke. Paul was inspired to correct Timothy's assigned church in specific matters. Simply that! Are these issues that we face today wherein we should draw wisdom from these scriptures? Sure.

You stated that the doctrine for the church was laid down during that time Paul's writings were written as doctrine for the church and to all generations to come! I disagree with that statement. The church's foundation started in Acts, written by Luke, approximately around 30 AD. What they deemed as church is far different from how we do things. Remember they worshiped in homes, primarily hosted by women and their husbands. There were no pulpits then and yes women were leaders in the church (the church wasn't a building, but the people). Paul admonished women in ministry all the time see below:
Priscilla (a woman) taught Apollos (a man) in hermeneutics. Both her and her husband were co-laborers as what we would call them pastors today. (see Acts 18:24-26). Phoebe (a woman) was acknowledged by Paul as a leader in the church in Cenchrea (see Romans 16:1-2). Mary, Tryphena, and Tryphosa (all women) were leaders in the church (see Romans 16:6, 12) and lastly Euodias and Syntyche was referred to Paul's equal in the ministry by Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:5.

Women were prophetesses in the old and new testaments. Prophetess is not only defined as women who foretell the future.

prof'-et-es (nebhi'ah; prophetis): Women were not excluded from the prophetic office in the Old Testament, and were honored with the right of prophetic utterance in the New Testament. It should be noted, however, that women like Miriam (Ex 15:20), Deborah (Jud 4:4) and Huldah (2Ki 22:14) were not credited with the seer's insight into the future, but were called "prophetesses" because of the poetical inspiration of their speech (SOUNDS LIKE PUBLICLY SPEAKING INSPIRATION (WHICH IS ONLY FROM SCRIPTURES)). Among others mentioned as having the prophetic gift we find Hannah (1Sa 2:1), Anna (Lu 2:36) and the four daughters of Philip (Ac 21:8,9).

Written by C. E. Schenk
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Paul didn't write to Timothy until circa 67AD, not until it was RELEVANT to whatever that particular church was going through. If God wanted this to be a staple in the church, they would have spent more time in the upper room hearing from God what the rules and regulations were to be for the church as opposed to worrying about being on one accord and getting filled with the Holy Ghost. With that said, it seems as if God spewed out wisdom as it was needed as opposed to overwhelming them with a whole of stuff. Are the principles relevant, YES! Do we teach we shouldn't smoke, drink, do drugs, etc because the Bible says so? No, we teach it because the Bible says our bodies are the temple of God and we should practice temperance.

Again, it seems confusing considering that the same man that said no to women preaching/teaching often admonished women in ministry and as equals in the ministry. Since, the Bible does not contradict itself on it's principles there must be a clear reason as to why he said one thing to Timothy and yet practiced another in other long before he even wrote to Timothy. Historical research on the culture of Ephesus tells us that at the time Paul wrote to that church it was bombarded by new converts who were used to their old style of worship with women leading out in the worship services as fertility goddesses (you can imagine it must have been seductive). Of course Paul didn't want the saints falling back into their old lifestyle of worship so he suggested to Timothy who obviously needed some wisdom, to have the women sit down during worship so they would not be a stumbling block and learn from their husbands. WAIT, does that mean that single women can't study the Bible themselves???? Do they have to borrow someone else's husband to teach them??? Why, I'm sure your wife would hate that doctrine...LOL...just joking! But for real, was Paul contradicting Peter when he says in 2 Peter 1 that we are to work out our own salvation? Or the verse that tells us to study to show OURSELVES approved. No, they were writing to actual churches with actual issues while living in a social culture that was man-made, not God-ordained. Remember, Jesus came to fulfill God's law, not man's law. Even though, the leaders misinterpreted and added extra drama to what Moses written, He corrected when He had an opportunity but that really wasn't his focus. So why would he tell Paul and other leaders to focus on reforming society from the outside in, but rather they were doing it from the inside out. According to society, Jesus should NOT have been kicking it at Mary's house like He was. He should have stoned the woman with the issue of blood that desperately touched Him. He definitely shouldn't have been talking to the married woman's issues at the well (her husband had legal right to kill Jesus if he caught Him). Paul should not have hosted a gathering in the upper room with women present. Paul should not have been addressing them in his letters, especially as an unmarried man. He should not have assigned Apollos to Priscilla for one on one hermeneutics lessons. SO CALL THEM REBELS, PULPIT-PIMPS,...WAIT SOMEBODY ALREADY DID AND THEY NAILED JESUS TO A CROSS AND THREW PAUL IN JAIL. Not only for preaching the gospel but because they rebelled against societal laws.

To the issue of women being submissive to men, women are to be submissive to their husbands, not every man that walks the face of this earth. There are too many women giving away their self dignity to men, especially in the church because they have been brainwashed to believe they are to submit to men PERIOD and they're only worth something if they have a husband. They should be in submission to GOD first! And if they're married it doesn't Paul is suggesting that women should leave their salvation up the their husbands, OR DOES IT? Men and women are equal in God's eyes as it relates importance. Everything Paul wrote, "women being the weaker vessel" physically is true, but he was also uplifting women by pointing out that even though sin came in through the woman (Eve), salvation came in through the woman (Mary) also. God had not given up on women!!! He still found a way to use women no matter what SOCIETY SAID!!! And let's not forget the first gospel (the life, death and resurrection of Christ) was first preached by women as they went to tell the disciples that Christ had risen from the dead. Wow, the first gospel sermon was preached by women!!!

So let's thank God that He sees women as important in ministry even when societal laws or man-made customs forbid. If aligning with the early church's practices to a "T" is the real issue then why do we allow women to teach Sunday school (boys and girl, young men and women present), teach classes in the seminary (men and women present), preach on Women's day (in front of mixed crowds), teach bible studies (with men present), have congregations intermingled in the sanctuary (they had men sitting on one side and women on the other side in some of the early churches), why do male pastors or religious leaders even speak to women (it was rarely done during Jesus' time (see John 4:27)), why are women allowed to attend church during their menstrual cycle, why are women allow to give "church hugs" in church or outside of church (a women could have been stoned for doing such a thing)? You said that the these writings, with the exception of Proverbs, DO NOT CHANGE over time and that it is doctrine, so be consistent then and find a church that resembles what I just stated. Trust me their out there. You have not excuse not to.

Help me out here, thanks for your time.

P.S. sorry it was sooooooo long! ; )